We Americans are into big business. The government is one of the biggest. I agree with just throwing all the taxes away and leaving people alone. This might have been possible before the Pony Express came into being. But, now we have the internet. It allows everyone to talk to everyone else. It is composed of an infrastructure of computer servers needing power. Look how Facebook has not just become the way people talk to each other, but, it also has become a billion dollar commodity.
When you grow into some big thing, you provide jobs for a lot of people and earn money in some way to stay in business. I don't know how Facebook and Twitter make money. It is some form of taxes collected from the users. There must be ads in there somewhere to keep all those servers moving that email around. The government also needs money to have the jails, police, tax collectors, voting machines, DMV, Armed Forces, etc.
We've been thru all of this before. The government isn't just gonna go away and shut down all the things it has grown into. These things have been built by all the politicians that have come before. We might have to destroy some of the agencies we've all built up. But, you've got to realize that we won't just dissolve the Army overnight. The taxes will have to be slowly lowered as the Army guys go home. The same goes for all the CIA agents and the local police. We still will need to have someone fix the roads and have the juries.
So, yeah, let's get rid of taxes. But don't forget about the vacuum they will leave behind. It will be painful.
China sold us all those plastic Tupperware containers. They have all ended up in the landfill. We bought more from China because that Tupperware was dirty and needed washing in the dishwasher that we bought from China. We have become so aristocratic and spoiled by our ability to buy stuff. All this stuff used to be manufactured here in the USA. But, since the factories outsourced all those low-paying jobs, the upper management got the bonuses, but the low-paid workers are all in China making their economy much more active. The Chinese are now buying the cars and the large flat screens. We sit and worry about foreclosures and finding a job.
We say it's our government's fault. It's our own fault because we got greedy and became compulsive buyers of stuff that was packaged nicely at Walmart.
MOG, I agree that the government has gotten way too big for it's britches and just sits there paying all the employees and their chauffeurs. The roads and police still do need to exist though. You can't just shut everything down because they have taken so much from the middle-class. Wall street has taken a lot more from the middle-class and the government has gotten that money back from the lobbyists who pay to keep the economy the way it is today. We do need to cut government spending. We need to downsize our military spending. We need to downsize many of our redundant government spy agencies. There is a lot that could be done. The government is not controlled by the people any more. The Constitution was once a symbol of how it all works. But, that was a few hundred years ago. We've passed a few amendments. But, recently they were to improve the lives of the rich.
I'll say it again. Money is what runs this world. It is the God that motivates all the activity we are involved in. Me first and damn the consequences. I'd say we have forgotten how to take care of those in trouble. We still have foreign aid. But who gets it?
I say that you do have a very valid point Iggy. However, that does not mean that the government is to get off scott free. Otherwise, pointing fingers like Obama is doing is all we will get and nothing will be solved.
Well, Obama is pointing fingers because he's unable to get Congress to do anything. He can't pay them to vote anything in. The lobbyists that are supported by the big corporations are the only ones that can. Government is responsible to fix this. But, the politicians that make it up are the corrupt ones that we want outta there. They won't vote themselves out of office. And we don't have a clue about whom to vote in. Whomever we vote in becomes corrupted by the system in place. How do we change our government?
Sorry man, but as long as we have a "leader" in the whitehouse that is only willing to point fingers at everyone but himself, no a whole lot will get done. There was a reason that the last elections were a sweep and it was a direct message against Obama's own policies.
The last election was a step in the right direction but more of that is needed in the future. To make it clear, I am focusing on the government in this post but that is not the only place there are problems.
Well, I'm sorry that there are arguments that you hate. I think that if it took a couple hundred years to build all the roads, Court houses, police stations, police repair garages, and the rest of the government-run infrastructure, it will take new politicians a number of years to vote it all out. If anything is modernized, it will cost money. The government is run (in theory) with tax money. If we lower taxes, that money is no longer there and it stops paying for the things we take for granted. If there's another way to keep the systems that we all agree are needed - like the Army, police, courts, road-maintenance, it will require someone to pay for it. If we just throw away our dollars (just declare them to be worthless), we might be able to install a new system of barter to pay for the government jobs. This would change our power in the international world. Maybe that's what we should do. If dollars were worthless - which they already are - then all our debt would be removed. I wonder what China would say about this? What would America be without the dollar?
What would be another way to privatize all the governmental things we assume will just always be there?
I think Ron Paul has some good ideas. Implementing these ideas while Wall Street and the big Corporations are in power would be the hard part. Congress (also run with money from Wall Street and Corporation lobbying) would just not vote for any of his suggestions because then Congress would lose their power. The President is still just a pretty face for everyone to blame for all their problems. We got rid of Bush, then we got Obama - another pretty face and quite impressive orator - kind of a wimp when it comes to fighting for what he believes in, though. Maybe the last election did send him a message that he listened to and just caved his policies to follow the Tea Party bullies. Will everyone be happy when we get rid of Obama and install some other name to put it the headlines. Will everyone just get hired at the high rates that they all need to pay for the house?
Maybe we should limit what the doctors, lawyers and financial experts get paid for their services. Since they have us over a barrel when their services are needed, they can charge whatever they feel is fair. The insurance cost for their screw ups is passed on to the users - not the actual doers. So health care, drugs, lawyers, all could be free. Wouldn't that be nice. How about free housing for everyone? Hey maybe Communism would be the way to go. They don't have taxes.
The point being is that if I say I am against income tax only or just raising the tax rate, some idiot will come along with a not legitimate argument that I am against all things the government was meant to provide. Attacking someone with something they clearly did not say is usually a sign of a weak point of view. 15 million types of taxes are not needed to take care of a constitutional government.
I certainly agree that using that argument is not the way to go. I also must add, that I don't like taxes. I don't want the money that I earned, to buy some new police cruiser or something. I'm not saying that when I discuss Ron Paul and his approach to fixing the government with Cng. I think that my side of the argument has been said a number of times.
I'll just reiterate once more. The idea of less taxes, smaller government, less laws, more freedom, less invasion of privacy, are all important issues that I am all for. All I am questioning is how to bring it about?
Since you are not against all the things the government is meant to provide, doesn't it follow that those things require money to install and maintain them? I also agree that there is a big waste of money by the government to provide these things and there should be a better way of watching the money.
There's a lot of corruption everywhere. Government sponsored loopholes - like subsidies, tax-free off-shore bank accounts, tax write-offs, etc. So, where there's money, you'll find corruption funnelling that money to other places.
Maybe that's a separate issue. But, I think that Ron Paul would run into the whole infrastructure that exists today when he tries to change any bit of it. The same checks and balances that were written into the Constitution are now used to protect us from ourselves and all those insurgents. The landscape has changed since the time of the Constitution. We need to update the laws with the information we have today. We could use some historical data and some Wall Street charts to show what has happened to the middle-class, for example. Where is the money and power today? Who is making the decisions and whom do these decisions benefit? Is Congress doing it's job? Is the President? I know Morgan Stanley still has a pretty rich CEO. So, does the World Bank. How's the Pentagon doing moneywise? Can Ron Paul just downsize those guys?
Well, if we're not greedy, how come we've bought so much stuff from China? Why do we owe so much to them? Is it possible that they know how to market their products and addict us to going to the store and bringing back a car full of things? I'm questioning if we need all the new items that we purchase. It's like buying a new car when the ashtrays get full. The landfills are full of plastic. Wouldn't a bit of self-control about our spending be wise?
There is inflation - which makes the price of items grow every year. I used to buy beater cars for $300, or so, back in the 80's. Now, the price for a similar car is $2000 or so. The dollars we have in the bank are becoming worth less.
I used to buy insulin for $8 per bottle. Now the same amount of insulin costs $130. I'm noticing a trend and am trying to figure out how to deal with it. I don't buy tools from Harbor Freight any more. I don't read those Homeland catalogs. If I limit my exposure to the stuff, I don't develop the need. That's my personal theory. I'm sure we all have ways to justify our expenses.
Maybe China is a scapegoat. They still do pay the workers a few dollars a day. They still have the sweat shops making Adidas shoes and jackets. Stylish stuff is still selling in the malls. Is there anything made here in America anymore? Guns, Caterpillar dozers, Boeing airplanes, Intel processors and all the drugs are the only items we sell to others. There's a big trade deficit because most of our stuff is being built in other countries with the workers getting paid less than our workers. Our Corporations are liking this, in the short term. If we don't have the jobs, the empire will fall. We won't have anymore money to spend on any stuff.
You can go to Walmart and fill your shopping cart there. I don't mind. We are still rich compared to Africa, eastern Europe, Asia. We are spending billions to fight the wars in the middle East. How can this continue? OK, we can cut the taxes lower. I do agree that we have a lot of laws that are useless. They have been voted in by people like Mitt Romney - a very rich person who might be the next president. Do you think he'll be lowering the taxes and reducing government spending if he gets in? The Democrats are also spending lots of money on wars. They are also keeping the homeless and other needy people alive.
I agree with less government. But, both parties have been enacting laws since the Revolutionary War. They have been passed to keep the needs of our citizens covered. But, now, since we've passed the law that Corporations have the same rights as individual people, they can just give the profits to the very rich at the top and pay for the next billion dollar campaign. The middle class is getting poorer. I bet we won't be buying as much from China soon. We're running out of money. Russia spent it all on their military campaigns and crashed. We're doing the same thing.
It's not greedy to want to save a few bucks on something. If Walmart has it cheaper, go for it. I'm just finding that I don't need any of the stuff I used to need. I still buy cookies and pizza for the D&D crowd that comes over on weekends. But, we now make the crust and add the toppings instead of buying a ready-made one. We've found ways to cut the price on regular purchases. One of the players' mother has chickens. We now get eggs at half the price of the store. I'll be selling the cars I have for scrap while I can. Food is really getting expensive. Costco is still OK but it's a long drive. I've got 12 tomato plants that are producing fruit. Only 1 cucumber has survived. But, we get 2 cucumbers a week. I've got a bit of lettuce and lots of Kale which makes enough green leaves to pass of lettuce. So, we're eating our own salads. I've got potatoes, carrots, beans, in the ground. I think we'll get something there. It feels good to grow your own when you see the $4/lb prices in the store. We'll make it...
Comments
When you grow into some big thing, you provide jobs for a lot of people and earn money in some way to stay in business. I don't know how Facebook and Twitter make money. It is some form of taxes collected from the users. There must be ads in there somewhere to keep all those servers moving that email around. The government also needs money to have the jails, police, tax collectors, voting machines, DMV, Armed Forces, etc.
We've been thru all of this before. The government isn't just gonna go away and shut down all the things it has grown into. These things have been built by all the politicians that have come before. We might have to destroy some of the agencies we've all built up. But, you've got to realize that we won't just dissolve the Army overnight. The taxes will have to be slowly lowered as the Army guys go home. The same goes for all the CIA agents and the local police. We still will need to have someone fix the roads and have the juries.
So, yeah, let's get rid of taxes. But don't forget about the vacuum they will leave behind. It will be painful.
I don't smoke either.
We say it's our government's fault. It's our own fault because we got greedy and became compulsive buyers of stuff that was packaged nicely at Walmart.
MOG, I agree that the government has gotten way too big for it's britches and just sits there paying all the employees and their chauffeurs. The roads and police still do need to exist though. You can't just shut everything down because they have taken so much from the middle-class. Wall street has taken a lot more from the middle-class and the government has gotten that money back from the lobbyists who pay to keep the economy the way it is today. We do need to cut government spending. We need to downsize our military spending. We need to downsize many of our redundant government spy agencies. There is a lot that could be done. The government is not controlled by the people any more. The Constitution was once a symbol of how it all works. But, that was a few hundred years ago. We've passed a few amendments. But, recently they were to improve the lives of the rich.
I'll say it again. Money is what runs this world. It is the God that motivates all the activity we are involved in. Me first and damn the consequences. I'd say we have forgotten how to take care of those in trouble. We still have foreign aid. But who gets it?
The last election was a step in the right direction but more of that is needed in the future. To make it clear, I am focusing on the government in this post but that is not the only place there are problems.
What would be another way to privatize all the governmental things we assume will just always be there?
I think Ron Paul has some good ideas. Implementing these ideas while Wall Street and the big Corporations are in power would be the hard part. Congress (also run with money from Wall Street and Corporation lobbying) would just not vote for any of his suggestions because then Congress would lose their power. The President is still just a pretty face for everyone to blame for all their problems. We got rid of Bush, then we got Obama - another pretty face and quite impressive orator - kind of a wimp when it comes to fighting for what he believes in, though. Maybe the last election did send him a message that he listened to and just caved his policies to follow the Tea Party bullies. Will everyone be happy when we get rid of Obama and install some other name to put it the headlines. Will everyone just get hired at the high rates that they all need to pay for the house?
Maybe we should limit what the doctors, lawyers and financial experts get paid for their services. Since they have us over a barrel when their services are needed, they can charge whatever they feel is fair. The insurance cost for their screw ups is passed on to the users - not the actual doers. So health care, drugs, lawyers, all could be free. Wouldn't that be nice. How about free housing for everyone? Hey maybe Communism would be the way to go. They don't have taxes.
I think that my side of the argument has been said a number of times.
I'll just reiterate once more. The idea of less taxes, smaller government, less laws, more freedom, less invasion of privacy, are all important issues that I am all for. All I am questioning is how to bring it about?
Since you are not against all the things the government is meant to provide, doesn't it follow that those things require money to install and maintain them? I also agree that there is a big waste of money by the government to provide these things and there should be a better way of watching the money.
There's a lot of corruption everywhere. Government sponsored loopholes - like subsidies, tax-free off-shore bank accounts, tax write-offs, etc. So, where there's money, you'll find corruption funnelling that money to other places.
Maybe that's a separate issue. But, I think that Ron Paul would run into the whole infrastructure that exists today when he tries to change any bit of it. The same checks and balances that were written into the Constitution are now used to protect us from ourselves and all those insurgents. The landscape has changed since the time of the Constitution. We need to update the laws with the information we have today. We could use some historical data and some Wall Street charts to show what has happened to the middle-class, for example. Where is the money and power today? Who is making the decisions and whom do these decisions benefit? Is Congress doing it's job? Is the President? I know Morgan Stanley still has a pretty rich CEO. So, does the World Bank. How's the Pentagon doing moneywise? Can Ron Paul just downsize those guys?
There is inflation - which makes the price of items grow every year. I used to buy beater cars for $300, or so, back in the 80's. Now, the price for a similar car is $2000 or so. The dollars we have in the bank are becoming worth less.
I used to buy insulin for $8 per bottle. Now the same amount of insulin costs $130. I'm noticing a trend and am trying to figure out how to deal with it. I don't buy tools from Harbor Freight any more. I don't read those Homeland catalogs. If I limit my exposure to the stuff, I don't develop the need. That's my personal theory. I'm sure we all have ways to justify our expenses.
Maybe China is a scapegoat. They still do pay the workers a few dollars a day. They still have the sweat shops making Adidas shoes and jackets. Stylish stuff is still selling in the malls. Is there anything made here in America anymore? Guns, Caterpillar dozers, Boeing airplanes, Intel processors and all the drugs are the only items we sell to others. There's a big trade deficit because most of our stuff is being built in other countries with the workers getting paid less than our workers. Our Corporations are liking this, in the short term. If we don't have the jobs, the empire will fall. We won't have anymore money to spend on any stuff.
You can go to Walmart and fill your shopping cart there. I don't mind. We are still rich compared to Africa, eastern Europe, Asia. We are spending billions to fight the wars in the middle East. How can this continue? OK, we can cut the taxes lower. I do agree that we have a lot of laws that are useless. They have been voted in by people like Mitt Romney - a very rich person who might be the next president. Do you think he'll be lowering the taxes and reducing government spending if he gets in? The Democrats are also spending lots of money on wars. They are also keeping the homeless and other needy people alive.
I agree with less government. But, both parties have been enacting laws since the Revolutionary War. They have been passed to keep the needs of our citizens covered. But, now, since we've passed the law that Corporations have the same rights as individual people, they can just give the profits to the very rich at the top and pay for the next billion dollar campaign. The middle class is getting poorer. I bet we won't be buying as much from China soon. We're running out of money. Russia spent it all on their military campaigns and crashed. We're doing the same thing.
We'll make it...